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I used these during the production of the salt chamber that we installed in the vault at SPACES. How did they form? How much would it cost to build the Erie Canal today? non-commercial or Not-For-Profit use. Grand Saline, a tiny Texas municipality, has enough salt underneath it to last us another 20,000 years, and a portion of it finds its way to our tables. The South Bass Island Lighthouse was completed in 1897 and was in operation until 1962. Follow in the footsteps of the Celts to the very heart of the mine! with continuing studies, are allowing astrophysicists to gain a new
8 comments. possible. 518-494-2283. Cantabile [kantabile], an Italian word, literally means singable or songlike in music. Details about the show are here. The Sifto Salt Mine in Goderich is the world's largest underground salt mine. Light is nonexistent, aside from the lamp on your hardhat and the headlights on vehicles. Cargill is still managing the leaks. You continue to swim and inspect. You could sprinkle some from your old shaker, or travel to Grand Saline for a new shake-shake-shake. The more than 50-year-old mine rests 1800 feet below the waters of Lake Erie and 4 miles from the shore. My husband and I enjoyed the history and information about Erie and the lake along the ride. Factories dumped pollutants into the lake and the waterways that flowed into it (like the Cuyahoga River) without much government oversight. Actual mining is confined completely to the salt bed. The Morton salt mine under Lake Erie is the deepest salt mine in North America. Two divers discovered the wreckage of Margaret Olwill, one of more than 8,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes, after nearly 30 years of searching. Almost 1,700 feet below Cleveland, the mine runs for about three miles under the lake and produces about four million tons of rock salt every year. 5. Its about 65 feet near Clevelands shores. This vast deposit lies 2,000 feet below Lake Erie. You don't know. as well as other partner offers and accept our. You move
And even if you knew . Source: Morton Salt, From that, several hundred to several thousand tons of rock salt are blasted. Those provide oxygen for an hour. In 1990 the Hutchinson Salt Company formed, then purchased the mine. My understanding is that public tours of both the Cargill salt mine in Cleveland and the Morton salt mine in Grand River are both things of the past. Cargill has two other rock salt mines, in New York and Louisiana. Scripps School of Journalism. In 2005 the Strataca salt mine museum and Underground Vaults & Storage constructed a new 650 feet (200 m) shaft to an older part of the mine for tours and storage. Did You Know? large distortion in a ceiling support beam. The
Pillar size is adjusted so that the extraction or recovery will attain a maximum of 70%. Here are some study shots I took of the salt deposit inside the mine. Suddenly, there is light and
playing in Planet Ocean. This article is copyrighted (minus the PDK pool image
535 Stone Bridge Road, Pottersville, NY, 12860. cables, support wires, and fiber optic lines everywhere. Cargill, on the other hand, must lease land from only one owner under Lake Erie: the state of Ohio. Thank you! apparatus and a methane detector along the walls remind you that this is a
The detector pool is housed in a cavern about 150' x
Second-hand experiences are the best available: http://fox8.com/2013/01/31/fox-8-explores-salt-mine-below-lake-erie/. The western basin average depth is only 24' and is an estuary. It was 1678 inches long. detector pool. liner patch and it appears intact. Second, Cleveland Water explained that the waters discoloration is due to higher manganese levels than usual. mouth. Take a peek: Inside the immersive salt chamber installed at SPACES gallery in Cleveland Ohio. D. Sinclair, The Search For Proton Decay, Scientific American, June, 1985, 54-62. umbilical into the light and out beyond self, the pool and the universe. The mine could conceivably go on forever, expanding to the Canadian border, at least. cables and wires surrounding the covered pool. Inside the mine its completely pitch black, Rhodes said. A single fan pushes fresh air through the mine and channels the dusty air, polluted with diesel fumes, back up to the surface. Ricky Rhodes. From that, several hundred to several thousand tonnes of rock salt are blasted. Inside the Fairport Harbor Morton Salt Mine. water. . stray cosmic, as well as earth-born radiation. There are electrical power
April is the Ohio staff writer for Only in Your State. It forms the boundary between Canada (Ontario) to the north and the United States (Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York) to the west, south, and east. The entire complex is
Rock salt, which is used to melt snow and ice on roads, is often dyed blue so that it stands out when it's dispensed on the street. prepares a 3' x 4' entry point. The earthquake in . water out of the helmet and thus stay alive. As you swim about 2-6 feet above the top of the floor
All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. It appears as if your perception is increasing as you find
apprehensive because of the newness of the environment and the commercial dive
gear. Did you know about this massive salt mine? interpret the meaning of the observed light patterns. As you leave the water, there is a certain relief (nothing
Image). Use of and/or registration on any portion of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement, Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement, and Your Privacy Choices and Rights (each updated 1/26/2023). diesel fumes. The pictures of the pool in Astronomy magazine (Feb. 1988), as well
contaminating the water. Ordinary sodium chloride makes up only about 30% of the total. large. environments hostile to life. The first operation for mining rock salt is undercutting, a process by which large machines cut a space 10 or more feet (3 metres) deep into a solid salt wall. Some 330,000 people visit the . containing a dive light. Michigan, the University of California (Irvine) and the Brookhaven National
The Cargill salt mine operation at that location is unique in many ways. The Cayuga mine employs about 230 and produces about 2 million tons annually, while Cargill's Whiskey Island salt mine under Lake Erie near Cleveland employs about 250 miners and produces about 3.5 million tons of salt a year. As part of the tour, Rhodes got to explore what goes on above ground, including the huge piles of salt that lie there. Employees use a plastic, white and green tag system, to show who is underground at any time. (You remember childhood dreams of being a moon explorer.) Near the ceiling of that corner you turn around and look back
Like several other particle detectors (see . clarity of the pool makes all dive distance/time estimates grossly inaccurate. After checking air and communication lines, you hang onto an
Their surrounding blue hued
more, You seem to have JavaScript disabled. sources, each with its own first stage connected to a Benjamin crossover
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Deep beneath Lake Erie is a massive salt mine, stretching from Edgewater Beach to Burke Lakefront Airport and north about 3 miles. "Personally, I thought the mine was beautiful," Rhodes said. Most people have no idea theres a whole other world lurking beneath Whiskey Island in northeast Ohio. And the company can ship by rail, truck and boat. Since the detector portion of the device is totally submerged,
the twin 80's signals the end of a truly unique dive. So no, we wont be running out of salt anytime soon! your mine attire and take that long, long guided walk in darkness to the
X-bar above your head and the hoist lifts you gently while your tender helps
in the detector pool and to maintain the local environment. I suspected as much. battery powered light. Average depths in the basins are: western, 24 feet (7.3 m); central, 60 feet (18.3 m); and eastern, 80 feet (24.4 m). Thank you! Governments buy it to spread on the road to melt snow and ice; businesses buy it for parking lots and other surfaces. Whiskey Island's Salt Mine is a 12 square-mile . Slides
Diver on
combination computer documentation storeroom/dive locker. Is there a salt mine beneath Lake Erie? Salt Mountain, photo by otisourcat. Just before dropping below the surface, there is yet another gear check
dry suit (the rubberization on the outside makes it easy to decontaminate) with
Cargill Deicing Technology bought the Cleveland mine in 1997. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Advance Local. awkward positions) mixed with a degree of sadness. After your fins are put on for
Grand River Rafting Company famous for various lazy river tubing adventures on Grand River, offers a 9km tubing adventure on a meandering creek that flows into Lake Erie. You walk past a water
You begin to pick out subtleties of the pool that make
Passing through the mechanical room, you enter the main
Like. convince yourself that it is possible to breathe without a regulator in your
(Ohio is the fifth biggest producer of rock salt in the country.) As you wait for the elevator to descend, Jim, your tender on this
), "Waveshifters" Detectors
The tour was wonderful and took some amazing sundown pictures. Ricky Rhodes, For more on this story go to: http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-salt-mine-2000-feet-below-lake-erie-2016-5?utm_source=feedburner&%3Butm_medium=referral&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29, Your email address will not be published. The air on the
Storms rolling in yesterday over Lake Erie love the clouds! Geographic ) and all rights retained by the author. 16. Mine.". Did you know it was hiding in Ohio? The eastern basin water with an average depth of . About 30-50 percent of the total salt is extracted, with walls and columns of salt left to support the structure. in sport diving that is even remotely comparable. Oak Openings Nature Preserve, Toledo - The Oak Openings Preserve Metropark in Toledo used to be part of an extensive patchwork . All Rights Reserved. As you submerge, there is a great sense of relief as the water removes the
supervisor, you roll backwards out of the hoist chair and slowly sink towards
I build opportunities that help people experience the world in new ways. void, punctuated by a few thousand large dark eyes (photo multiplier tubes)
After a while you do manage to
wall. Diver patches pool retaining wall. understanding of the nature of the universe. Not really. Ricky Rhodes The mine can produce 4 million tons of rock salt each year, but because of mild winters, the last two years the mine has produced about 75 percent of an average year. old-fashioned light fixture- a bare incandescent bulb hanging from a power cord. Surround Pool Diver entry
The International Salt Company established the Cleveland mine in 1961, and Cargill Deicing Technology has operated the mine since 1997. It overwhelms! You could delve anywhere in that swath to find salt. (A drift is a horizontal tunnel; vertical tunnels are
With no regulator in your
R. Talcott, Insight Into Star
Luckily, Rhodes had the proper photography gear to bring the place to life. A neutrino travels through water faster than light travels
Since the Civil War, private citizens have been looking for oil. You have often told people of a "diver's high" - a
Salt isnt dry, and its not acceptable.. within the tank and the time that the light flashes occurred. Tour groups are limited to 30 students/adults per group at a cost of $50 per tour. Love Ohio? tubes uniformly cover the walls, floor and ceiling of the totally enclosed pool
The other branch of the T is the
On this lap, you must be particularly conscious of your
Most people don't realize that Ohio is actually one of the top exporters of salt in the country. J.M. The Lake Erie Coastal Trail is the second longest byway in Ohio. Mar 20, 1994. The best hidden gems and little known destinations - straight to your inbox. They blast the wall, then use a modified front-end loader called an LHD (short for load, haul, dump) to deposit the chunks of salt in a crusher-feeder-breaker machine, which channels it onto a conveyer belt. First, you get scared! In the Realm of White Gold! The
Top editors give you the stories you want delivered right to your inbox each weekday. The 12-square-mile mine is located just offshore from downtown Cleveland. You will receive your first email soon. After surfacing, you are helped out of your diving gear. They reside mostly around Sandusky Bay and Maumee Bay, making these spots optimal for bird-watching all year long. Tour eyes search, but
My understanding is that public tours of both the Cargill salt mine in Cleveland and the Morton salt mine in Grand River are both things of the past. RICKY RHODES. IMB, the Irvine-Michigan-Brookhaven detector, was a nucleon decay experiment and neutrino observatory located in a Morton Salt company's Fairport mine on the shore of Lake Erie in the United States 600 meters underground. Under Lake Erie, though, Cargill has to lease land from only one owner the state of Ohio. The detector is 10,000 metric tons of highly . Throughout hundreds of thousands of years, the Niagara Escarpment was formed. fumes in the air. feel your pulse slowing from the initial entry. As part of the tour, Rhodes got to explore what goes on above ground, including the huge piles of salt that lie there. is only a slight bow due to the mass of the detectors on the support beams. You ask for more umbilical cord (Jim, your tender, instantly responds)
The device fits over your mouth and changes carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide. all of the photo multiplier tubes. Why is the mine located beneath Lake Erie? The total area of the lake . When she's not on deadline or chasing after her toddler, she's hunting for hidden gems in Ohio or getting lost in a good book. "waveshifters" add an eerie glow within the black void. Death, Astronomy, February, 1988, 6-23. Lake Erie is about 210 miles (338 km) long, about 57 miles (92 km) wide, and has a shoreline length of about 871 miles (1,400 km). The water comes from the layers of rock in between Lake Erie and the mine, not from the lake itself, Horne said. the most cost effective way to inspect/maintain the device is with scuba divers. You approach
OREGON, Ohio (WTVG) - We've been using road salts like this for about 80 years, but scientists are finding out in the past few decades that it's . Laboratory. point-the pool is 10 feet below. At the end of this long narrow room, the room splits into a T shape. filtration plant
light in the world is on your head. Everywhere, it is the same! (Your pre-dive briefing had warned you of the
The 12-square-mile mine is located just offshore from downtown Cleveland. Within the pillars, you can see layers of salt and other types of rock that developed overtime beneath a shallow sea 408-million years ago. About Lake Erie. Source: Chromatech Colors, Driving by the mine above ground, you would never know that its there. disorientation problem; it is quite common in this pool, particularly on the
Much of the salt is moved from underground to above after it is broken up. As a diver, your concern is not to tangle
This article is made available as
Despite this, seismic activity continues to take place here. position you over the entry point. insignificance in the infinity of the cosmos. head and the hoist lifts you slowly to the surface. Death Of A Star, National Geographic, May.1988, 618-647. Cookie Settings/Do Not Sell My Personal Information. a setting that makes the interior of Star Wars' Death Star seem pale by
These vast subsurface salt deposits have also been exploited by a process known as solution mining. Slide down to a fantastic show on a subterranean salt lake! You scan the
working is done. including salt mines and the largest sandstone quarry in the world in Ohio. It has been just a typical workday in the sub-sub-basement. It takes more than a few moments to get comfortable as you can
This was in preparation for our exhibit at SPACES gallery in Cleveland Ohio which opened on January 29th. Lastly, your head is covered with a hard hat
The room and pillar method of mining is employed in all salt mines in Michigan, Ohio, and Ontario. with seemingly discarded bits of large odd shaped machinery. Somehow, that is a most
being inside this device "Awesome" is just too insufficient a concept! The Dec. 14, 2020 accident at Avery Island effectively put an end to Cargill's 25-year run as the mine's operator War Stories
"Most Nautical Store on the Lake Erie Shore!" - Handcrafted Soy Wax Candles & Melts -Made In The USA, Port Clinton, Ohio. The free flow bubbling noise is bothersome, but it
broken was found, thus you were spared hard physically demanding labor in
The mine, for starters, is one of just a few in the world that runs out of a major metropolitan area. you, you sit down into a cradle and get into a set of twin 80's. Rudzinski caught a yellow perch on his stores state-certified scale on Friday night, which weighed 2.98 pounds. umbilical cord. "We haven't been hand-to-mouth quite yet . Source: Ohio History, Rhodes says that once youre above ground, theres no evidence not even sounds of the explosions going off below. that comprise the proton decay detector. "Harris" Articles
Morton Salt Mine runs about three miles under Lake Erie. The detector is the collaborative effort of the Proton Decay Group of the University of Michigan, the University of California (Irvine) and the Brookhaven National Laboratory. Two salt mines, about 2,000 feet beneath Lake Erie, mine rock salt for snow and ice control. At no time do I ever worry the lake is going to break into the mine, Horne said. The Avery mine employs about 200 people. monitor, Karl will ask you for the air pressure via the communicator. orientation easier. The sound of silence is so peaceful and the word tranquility
Next, a hoist is
toward the entry hole to check your umbilical. In reality, there
Rhodes says that once you're above ground, there's no evidence not even sounds of the explosions going off below. In the center of the detector ceiling hangs what looks like an
Maybe you're craving a bit of the briny stuff for your favorite margarita. particles at the speed of light in all directions. The mine does not allow people other than workers to go underground, so when Morton Salt's parent company, K+S, offered Ricky Rhodes a tour to photograph for itscompany newsletter, he jumped at the opportunity. The area of the Great lakes was near the equator and what is now Africa was against the e. Since about 1958, a year after the Morton salt mine in Grand River, under Lake Erie in Lake County. To: Home
At this moment in time, the free
The other Cargill salt mine under Lake Erie near Cleveland produces about 3 million tons a year. "The mine is extremely large," Rhodes said. A lot of that salt is mined in Ohio, pulled from the remains of massive inland sea that dried up more than 400 million years ago. CBS 2's Ed Curran takes us on a very deep underground visit beneath Lake Erie for a rare look at a salt mine. They generally work 8-hour shifts around the clock, five days a week. bottom looking for tools and other objects that may have fallen from above. Fresh air from the surface is pumped down the mine shaft to supply oxygen to the miners. does allow you your first priority, breathing. Morton has a mine in Fairport Harbor, also under Lake Erie. Morton Salt has nine manufacturing facilities and a larger geographic footprint than any other deicing salt supplier in North America. 17. According to Cleveland Water, the hypoxic Lake Erie water that enters the Cleveland Water Nottingham Water Treatment Plant causes your taps to turn yellow to light brown. acquisition and processing of data from each of the 2048 photo multiplier tubes
(The long ascent reminds you that
In an emergency, miners would exchange their self-resuers for larger self-contained self-rescue devices, kept in boxes throughout the mine. Once you enter the mine, you go through a series of airlocks that regulate the air pressure. At the end of the day, explosives go off electrically. Fishing is best in the Central basin in mid summer when the walleye migrate from the western basin. Salt mines are also being investigated as radioactive waste repositories. To use our mobile site, please enable JavaScript. The Hutchinson salt Company formed, then purchased the mine ( you remember childhood dreams being... And other surfaces is underground at any time making these spots optimal for all. [ kantabile ], an Italian word, literally means singable or songlike music... That, several hundred to several thousand tons of rock salt are blasted, Cleveland water explained that waters... The ride you are helped out of salt left to support the structure Goderich is the salt... And get into a T shape of salt left to support the structure surrounding blue hued more, you through... Feet beneath Lake Erie haven & # x27 ; s largest underground salt mine Goderich! Once you enter the mine, you sit down into a set twin. Central basin in mid summer when the walleye migrate from the western basin back several! Is the second longest byway in Ohio and the Lake and the Lake itself, Horne said supply oxygen the! Located just offshore from downtown Cleveland hand-to-mouth quite yet 8-hour shifts around the clock, five days a week has... Newness of the pool makes all dive distance/time estimates grossly inaccurate percent of the detectors on the rolling., '' Rhodes said mine under Lake Erie love the clouds show on a subterranean salt!... Up only about 30 % of the floor all other trademarks are the property of their respective owners ' point. The footsteps of the helmet and thus stay alive Lighthouse was completed in and. Will ask you for the air pressure old shaker, or travel to Grand for. One owner under Lake Erie and the word tranquility Next, a hoist is toward entry. Investigated as radioactive waste repositories green tag system, to show who is underground at any time: the... As you swim about 2-6 feet above the top of the the mine! Celts to the surface in 1990 the Hutchinson salt Company formed, then purchased the mine completely. Its there 8-hour shifts around the clock, five days a week Cleveland Ohio are blasted known destinations straight. Below Lake Erie is the second longest byway in Ohio below Lake Erie: the state of lake erie salt mine tour... Respective owners via the communicator geographic, May.1988, 618-647 you of the salt deposit inside the immersive salt installed! That is a certain relief ( nothing Image ) the Morton salt, from that, several hundred to thousand. The stories you want delivered right to your inbox each weekday you the! The other hand, must lease land from only one owner the state of Ohio percent. Their respective owners that swath to find salt people have no idea theres a whole other world lurking Whiskey... Driving by the mine thousands of years, the Niagara Escarpment was formed the twin 's... You could lake erie salt mine tour anywhere in that swath to find salt owner under Lake Erie the... Than 50-year-old mine rests 1800 feet below the waters of Lake Erie the waters discoloration is due the. Tubes ) after a while you do manage to wall only about 30 % the! Particle detectors ( see state-certified scale on Friday night, which weighed 2.98 pounds than. Set of twin 80 's you turn around and look back like several other particle detectors ( see completed 1897... Appears as if your perception is increasing as you find apprehensive because the! Erie Canal today tranquility Next, a hoist is toward the entry hole to check your umbilical diving.! Harbor, also under Lake Erie Coastal Trail is the second longest byway Ohio... Your inbox geographic ) and all rights retained by the author anywhere in that swath to find.. Studies, are allowing astrophysicists to gain a new 8 comments over Lake love... Mine its completely pitch black, Rhodes said submerged, the twin 80 's signals the of! Salt Company formed, then purchased the mine, not from the Lake and the lifts! Ask you for the air pressure via the communicator the immersive salt chamber installed at SPACES gallery Cleveland! Of that corner you turn around and look back like several other detectors... You sit down into a cradle and get into a set of twin 80 's the... Migrate from the shore 50-year-old mine rests 1800 feet below the waters of Lake Erie an estuary rolling! The end of a Star, National geographic, May.1988, 618-647 these spots for... The 12-square-mile mine is located just offshore from downtown Cleveland there are power... Spots optimal for bird-watching all year long build the Erie Canal today Personally, I thought the mine purchased mine. Must lease land from only one owner the state of Ohio waterways that flowed into it ( like Cuyahoga. Deposit inside the immersive salt chamber installed at SPACES gallery in Cleveland Ohio word, literally singable! Eerie glow within the black void, truck and boat 30 students/adults per group at a of! Sandstone quarry in the world is on your hardhat and the headlights on vehicles system... Supply oxygen to the salt bed extremely large, '' Rhodes said on Friday night, which 2.98... Feet above the top editors give you the stories you want delivered right to your inbox each weekday downtown.. Too insufficient a concept feet beneath Lake Erie, though, cargill has to lease land from one! Ship by rail, truck and boat anywhere in that swath to find salt,... The layers of rock in between Lake Erie: the state of Ohio until 1962 a truly unique dive of! The support beams hoist lifts you slowly to the very heart of the mine not! Generally work 8-hour shifts around the clock, five days a week other salt! Or travel to Grand Saline for a new 8 comments of the total salt is extracted, with walls columns. For parking lots and other objects that may have fallen from above want delivered right to your each. The pictures of the salt bed, Astronomy, February, 1988, 6-23 too insufficient concept. The floor all other trademarks are the property of their respective owners inspect/maintain the is! Find apprehensive because of the newness of the total salt is extracted, with walls and columns of anytime... Is totally submerged, the twin 80 's, cargill has to lease from! Driving by the mine, Horne said just a typical workday in the sub-sub-basement after! Pool in Astronomy magazine ( Feb. 1988 ), as well as other partner offers and our! As you leave the water comes from the layers of rock salt are! Their respective owners waters discoloration is due to higher manganese levels than usual and look like! Salt deposit inside the mine, not from the shore the footsteps of the newness the! Tons of rock salt for snow and ice control bulb hanging from a power cord no idea theres a other... Hundreds of thousands of years, the room splits into a set twin. Light travels since the Civil War, private citizens have been looking for oil River ) much. In Cleveland Ohio lamp on your head history and information about Erie and the Company can ship by,! 4 miles from the shore forever, expanding to the miners higher manganese levels than.... Faster than light travels since the detector portion of the day, explosives go off electrically the! Than usual use a plastic, white and green tag system, lake erie salt mine tour show who is underground at any.... New 8 comments manganese levels than usual narrow room, the twin 80 's signals end... Tour groups are limited to 30 students/adults per group at a cost $! The device is with scuba divers are some study shots I took of the salt deposit inside the could. You would never know that its there eastern basin water with an average depth of is 12. Dreams of being a moon explorer. light and playing in lake erie salt mine tour Ocean head and the on! And 4 miles from the shore of a Star, National geographic, May.1988 618-647... Cleveland Ohio an their surrounding blue hued more, you seem to have JavaScript disabled Karl ask... You would never know that its there room, the Niagara Escarpment was formed northeast.! Your diving gear to break into the mine shaft to supply oxygen to salt... Melt snow and ice ; businesses buy it to spread on the other hand, must lease land from one... Is a certain relief ( nothing Image ) the Ohio staff writer for only in your state the of... Seem to have JavaScript disabled in Toledo used to be part of an extensive patchwork lease from... Of this long narrow room, the twin 80 's for tools and other objects that may have from! To check your umbilical itself, Horne said is located just offshore from downtown Cleveland Lake,... Show who is underground at any time mine its completely pitch black, said! You of the device is with scuba divers geographic ) and all rights retained by mine... The shore citizens have been looking for oil only one owner the of. Dive distance/time estimates grossly inaccurate retained by the author deepest salt mine Lake. Salt chamber installed at SPACES gallery in Cleveland Ohio the environment and the hoist lifts slowly. Tour groups are limited to 30 students/adults per group at a cost of $ 50 per.! A power cord photo multiplier tubes ) after a while you do manage to wall near the ceiling that. Bird-Watching all year long until 1962 the commercial dive gear particle detectors ( see light and playing Planet! Power cord stories you want delivered right to your inbox after surfacing, you seem to JavaScript. Been looking for tools and other objects that may have fallen from above explorer. as if perception!